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I am sorry for not answering your questions on The Blue Board earlier. I have answered those and will answer your questions about 247Composite here now.
Here are some notes...
-It is extremely flattering that you guys like our evaluations as much as you do. Obviously, this is an ego-driven business and we've had to set ours aside a little (we are still ranking players and 247Sports rankings factor in equally to the composite) but our goal is to create products that you guys, the fans, find useful. There are so many different sets of rankings out there, we feel that it's important for fans to have a place they can view where their class stacks up against others across the industry.
-Also, LSU is likely going to have the top class in 2014 by far going away if you get who we think you are. The Class of 2013 is great, but if you consider the average rank of most of these commits, there aren't top 5-10 type of guys, not even on our network. Now in 2014? Different story all together. It will be sick. Point is, No. 10 may be an accurate call at this point. Do I personally think LSU's class is better than Georgia's? Yes. I could even make the argument against Texas (BTW, the reason the Horns are higher is their average prospect rating).
-Our team rankings do not factor in team rankings from other networks. The way it works is our team rankings formula calculates the team rank score based on the 247Composite ranking/rating of each player rather than the 247Sports ranking/rating of each player.
-Keep in mind different networks update at different times and 247Composite will update right along with them. There are some evaluations right now dragging down some of your commits for sure. That is going to change moving forward most likely. It will seem a little out of whack at times during the cycle. That being said, our formula is designed to give the best final team rankings and it will have a lot of movement in it rather than the gradual movement of some other formulas, so hang in there with that.
-On LSU being No. 10 despite having 17 247Composite four star prospects, looking at the formula (and I am not smart enough to calculate it all out) it appears that the average is being dragged down by some of the players that aren't as high.
-We are in the process of adding the 247Sports rankings/ratings back to the commit list and in the future, there may be a way you can sort team rankings by just using the 247Sports ratings. We want to create an industry consensus with our team rank (everybody has a different formula or a way to do it, we elected to go this direction)
-I would not be upset if I were an LSU fan about the current team rankings on 247Sports. Again, it's where you finish in the end that matters and that's what we are working toward.
With that, hang in there. As is the case with anything new, we roll it out, listen to feedback, examine/evaluate it and change it if it isn't fair. I also will be more than happy to take your questions.
Thanks so much and we are more than thrilled that you guys are so passionate about this!
E-mail: jc@247Sports.com/Twitter: @jcshurburtt/Instagram jcshurburtt
Thank you for explaining it. It is very much appreciated.
you're still watering down your product by including other weaker services that don't and/or won't put the same sources into their evaluations.
GET AT ME
Maybe I'm too misinformed to understand the formula...but does having ESPN (who hasn't a clue) included into the formula not bring down guys like R Robinson in the Composite Rankings? Thanks
No problem I should have answered sooner.
You have a point, but we still have our own rankings. We want to offer you guys (the fans) as many resources as possible.
Wow, impressive JC. Impressive on several fronts. Impressive that you took the time to address this. We know we LSU fans can be needy at times!! So thanks for that.
And also, a very impressive and forthright answer. Appreicate the candor.
I for one, am not disappointed in the Composite at all. As a fan, I always wonder why this guy is rated this way over here and this there. Well, the composite removes that discussion and aggregates it. And I see this tool compelling the services to take second looks at guys that may be oddly rated per the aggregate.
For example, take Hayden Rettig. 247 is alone in rating him where they have him. Other services have him much higher. Now, you and Barton and s&s have stated many times that he will be evaluated with senior film so this isn't an issue per se. BUT this composite tool would have placed the rating discrepancies in the forefront and drew attention to it should 247 staffers not been aware of this drastic rating difference.
Anyway, I get the point with the team ranking issue. Especially since we 247ers devalue other sites ratings. That's the very reason we are here. So, it would be a good tool to be able to view Composite team rankings AND 247 team rankings and that would appease a lot of folks.
Anyway, that's enough for now. Thanks JC. You, s&s and noah and lucky and I'm sure many others, represent the quality and dedication what we all look for and have come to expect from 247.
Thanks for that and Geaux Tigers!!
It's no problem at all. I appreciate you guys caring about recruiting and more importantly about LSU football. Too much crap in the world nowadays and we all know we get into this stuff as an escape. Even me and it's my job!
So you're willing to include "resources" that degrade your product? Makes no sense and I can't see how that makes your service better for its customers. A state like LA that is underscouted bc other services refuse to put the resources towards it will then always take a hit in your rankings
You got that right JC. This is my escape. My hobby. I live this stuff. Folks that aren't into find me/us odd....hahah. Following HS kids and their whims seems futile and "silly" to them.
But college football and LSU matter to me and it affects me. However sad that may be.
And having a quality product like 247 to satisfy my need for info and updates makes my interests skyrocket.
Appreciate the interaction!!
Now dangit.....get Rettig rated higher!!!!! Haha
"Our team rankings do not factor in team rankings from other networks. The way it works is our team rankings formula calculates the team rank score based on the 247Composite ranking/rating of each player rather than the 247Sports ranking/rating of each player."
You may not be directly using other networks "Team Ratings" but using a composite score based on player ratings from other networks is essentially the same thing becuase that is how they come up with their "Team Ratings." Who are you trying to fool with that statement?
You can't use someone elses product and call it your own. Its not right and it doesn't work. As I said earlier, unless you are using 100 other networks rankings, the validity score does not even out because it only take 1 idiotic set of ratings....cough, cough ESPN.....to throw the whole thing off.
I'm sorry I just don't understand why you would want to tarnish the work and the product you put out by the inclusion of invalid factors. I understand the desire to make the rusults more valid and objective, but the idea is predicated on using the proper valid and objective data.
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us....They can't get away this time." Chesty Puller
I think yall are making a big mistake with this emphasis on composite ranking. I know yall want to create an industry standard, but you are diluting your own product in the process. Any joe blow with an internet connection and bleacher report account can create an "industry consensus" ranking....Maybe the formula would be different, but the 247 formula is proprietary (as far as I can tell) so who is to say which would be better.
Don't get me wrong, the composite ranking is a cool feature...But it should be nothing more than that - a feature. I just can't get over the fact that you would dilute all of the good reputation 247 has built up with respect to ranking and scouting players for the hope of getting mentioned as some sort of industry standard ranking...which will never happen. It will just be posted as the 247 ranking amongst other sites for comparison - this is already happening.
And to be clear, I could care less about where LSU is ranked this year...whether we dropped from 6th to 10th or are up to 3rd...I really don't care. I just don't think I should EVER have to click through to find the 247 ranking on a prospect/team/in an article/etc. when this hocus pocus amateur composite ranking is shown as primary. I pay for 247 service; that is what I want to see.
I was excited about 247 getting Sonny and Shea because it finally gave LSU a site with a good combination of both national and local coverage...If the emphasis on this composite ranking remains, that will change my mind on the national perspective - and I won't hesitate to drop the 247 network as a result at the first dip in local coverage (which I do not expect from S/S...but who knows).
By using this composite rating, you are saying "we are unsure of our ratings...so, we will factor in others"
I want to be clear. i'm really not concerned about where LSU falls in the Team Rankings (other than I expect them to be fairly high because it is an elite program). But, why would i PAY for this particular service and then NOT want to know how this particular service evaluates the classes?
I dislike the idea. All of us are capable of finding the other services team evaluations. We are all capable of processing "LSU is rated 4 (Scout) 6 (Rivals) 4 (247) and 9 (ESPN)" and reaching a conclusion.
I do not desire that 247 hold my hands through this and spoon feed me the 'composite' evaluation. I want 247 to tell me what 247 thinks of a player and what 247 thinks of the class as compared to other Universities.
Let's be honest. 247 is doing this in hopes that it has a marketing / branding impact.
I understand that the default answer here is always "the formula" but how can Alabama be ranked 8th by Rivals, 8th by Scout, and 4th by ESPN but wind up at FREAKIN THREE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! on 247? In order for this "Formula" to work by using averages from the other sites, 24/7 must have ranked the Gumps 1a, 1b, & 1C.
Rivals Scout ESPN 247
1. USC 1. Michigan 1. USC 1. USC
2. Michigan 2. USC 2. Michigan 2. Michigan
3. Florida 3. aTm 3. Florida 3. Gumps
4. LSU 4. ND 4. Gumps 4. Florida
5. Georgia 5. Georgia 5. tOSU 5. tOSU
6. aTm 6. Florida 6. Auburn 6. ND
7. ND 7. LSU 7. Texas 7. Texas
8. Gumps 8.Gumps 8. ND 8. Auburn
9. Auburn 9. tOSU 9. Georgia 9. Georgia
10.tOSU 10. Texas 10. FSU 10. LSU
This post was edited by CenLA Tiger 20 months ago
Just for clarity, 247 does NOT average the other site's Team Rankings. They take the other sites INDIVIDUAL player ratings and average them....THEN, use that number to come up with the composite.
There is a difference in outcomes if you simply take "Bama ranked #4 vs Bama's individual commits' rating" and rerank the class.
Who is JC Shurburtt?
This post was edited by TigersRule1 20 months ago
JC, first props to you for explaining and welcoming the line of fire, many services arent willing to do this.
Heres my problem:
- I subscribe to this site a) because of Sonny and Shea b) Barton Simmons is the best of any site at getting down and scouting LA and a lot of the best analysts from other sites are here
- why would any company not be confident enough in their own rankings to have to dilute them and include the rest of the industry. McDonalds doesnt offer a Sonic burger and put label it McDonalds composite. They are confident enough in their own product to market it by itself.
- This is a pretty cool feature, but its just that a feature. You should still compile your own team rankings and then have the feature of the composite rankings,
I understand this may have not been your idea and you have to do what the bosses say, but this is one of the worst business ideas i have ever heard of, honestly.Luckily in the last few years Ive grown past caring about rankings and i just trust the staff. Look at LSU, we havent had classes on the same level as Bama by the rankings, but its universally thought that we are on par in talent and this year maybe more.
Thank you for clarifying.
He's a French model. We met him on the internet.
Seriously, National recruiting analyst for 247 and formerly of another site. He's on will Bill King on Thursday mornings around 0700 CST too.
I guess you won't be dining at Chick-fil-a...
Why not keep your own team rankings, and then have a separate view for the composite rankings? If that were the case, great feature & good work guys. Instead you are taking other people's work, and making them your own team rankings. Horrible, horrible idea!
I wouldn't be so upset about this, if I didn't think the world of 247Sports. I was so excited when I found out that Sonny & Shea were making a move to 247. 247 already had people who actually scout LA, and now we have the best in the business in S&S... perfect world, right? My opinion now.. Thank God y'all have Sonny & Shea, otherwise my sub would be canceled.
Well, got my first "downvote" today. Didn't think is care but gotta admit...uncool!!! Haha. What's that about??? The post that for the downvote wasn't even argumentative or anything. I thought it was kind of sunshine pumping and happy.
You can see it about 10 posts above this one if you care.
Guess its all down hill from here.....
This post was edited by BrettLSU 20 months ago
i think its a good idea.. it gives us 247's ranking whick most members like myself value more than other sites thats why im a member here.. It also gives me an average ranking combining all the rankings.. Even though i mainly look at 247's rankings only, i do wander where we stand on other sites and this gives me an idea.. Im not a star gazer but our ranking is important for me as a fan. As far as a team that may be ranked as high or higher doesnt mean they have a better class.. I would rather have a deeper class than a top heavy class.. so 20 4 star guys imo is better than 2 5 star, 5 high 4 star guys and the rest mediocre at best.. the ranking may be close but down the road our class in this case would put a better team on the field imo.. especially because the difference in their high 4 star guys and our low 4 start guys may be little to none down the road anyway..
All is cool Brett. Gave you an Up vote to cancel that one out.
some clown from tigerdroppings must have "dripped" on you............fear not.........
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