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Not the benchmark it used to be
GET AT ME
Factoring in all of the out-of-conference victories this past weekend, we can see that the good SEC teams this season are great teams. I think the top half of the SEC can possibly beat any team in the country.
"That was Death Valley. It's where opponent's dreams come to die." - Miles
"I strive to never let the perfect be the enemy of the good. They are companions, not rivals, for our affections." -Lance Paddock
Don't worry jimmy, sec is much stronger than it use to be when Saban was here!
Yeah, but even when he was here he wasn't very good. He only had one season with 11 or more wins. If we go by the BTJ standard he sucked. But then so did Bear Bryant at Alabama and Spurrier at Florida. Unlike those programs LSU doesn't settle. We demand 11 wins in our down years. Glad we got rid of that bum when we had the chance.
since you brought it up, do you really want to compare the state of the programs when each started? The inferiority complex just leaks out of some of you. Bet you're thrilled with the chicken bowl
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by BlueToothJimmy 17 months ago
You obviously have a comprehension issue. We compared the program to where Saban left it, not started, as well as to two of the most dominant programs I SEC history. I think we are better than Saban left us, and compare quite favorably, in a tougher conference, to the Spurrier-Bryant eras.
It is you who have the inferiority issues. Even during one of college football's greatest runs you feel inferior, feel like a failure, an underachiever. You mask your insecurity with bluster about not "settling" but that is what it is. An inferiority complex which keeps you from enjoying greatness.
I enjoy success, but not sloppy undisciplined football bc it ends up costing LSU every year. That has nothing to do w/ other teams, and is a sign of a team underachieving. At least it's not the 90's though, right?
I was in school for late 90's, much to your dismay, a build up in the program had already began with dinardo as far as bringing in talent. Dinardo was to paranoid about asst's taking his glory per an ex qb. I am not satisfied about a chick fil a bowl but like you said in your op, there are 6 teams with 10 wins...we can't control How it falls, only the way we play. Before all the personal issues(injuries, suspensions etc) I woul have been pissed to know we lost to Florida. Losing to bama is not necessarily expected but understandable. So while I have high expectations, I also can temper them reasonably with the different eb and flows of a football team.
I wouldn't so much mind your negativity with deserved but your never there when thing are good, and then you still find a way to spin your pessimism.
But Hey I'm an optimist by nature, shame on me right?
Like you said, LSU can only control the way they play, and that is the reason we'll be sitting home watching come BCS time. there hasn't been a whole ton of good this year with the way the team played. UW was the second game of the year, and bama was a loss. The rest of the yr LSU played it's typical sloppy, undisciplined football.
This post was edited by BlueToothJimmy 17 months ago
Not trying to take away from Saban accomplishments. Saban took it way beyond anything dinardo was good enough to do.
Athletic depts and LSU commitment to be one of the best had as much to do our ascensending to where we are today.
Point is Saban wasn't sole reason, but very intricate part.
This post was edited by Tigerniberia 17 months ago
There are tell tale signs when someone isn't discussing things in good faith:
1. Changing the subject: An all time favorite tactic. Keep changing it until you hit on a good point and then use that to justify anything else one claims. The discussion was about the win loss record and its significance relative to the past. That is inherently about other teams and eras. On that metric Miles' record is spectacular. You can argue it should have been better, that most coaches would have done better, etc., that you find his style unpleasant, or even that other coaches would have likely won less but it would be preferable because they would have been more disciplined. Those arguments may or may not have some merit. However, they are irrelevant to your initial assertion and discussion topic.
2. Create a "straw man." Another favorite of those who do not want to discuss in good faith. We specifically referenced other great eras of success in football. We didn't bring up the nineties. You did. But acting as if we are somehow justifying calling the record under Les Miles darn good just because we stink it up in the nineties is something we did not do. Thus a Straw-man argument.
So, if you want to posit that Les is a sloppy and disorganized coach and that thus we would be better off with someone else, fine. It would be a great topic for another thread or as a separate topic. It in no way changes the fact of his record relative to the greatest coaches of all time.
LSU played, what five ranked teams, and won four of them.
This team suffered some significant player losses bit perservered. Hell, they were one final play from seeing Georgia in the SEC C. A young player got lost.
Sloppy, undisciplined play? Youthfulness? I saw some players errors that cost LSU. LSU's wins and losses were defined by making a play or two or making a poor decision. We've got four coaching changes underway. We had one or two last year. That's huge.
All you can do is compete at the highest level. I don't see anybody with a corner on superior talent - Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, Texas A&M, South Carolina - all have talent. A check of the recruiting or WL record confirms that.
What we have here, sadly, is a preview of the rest of the freaking year - no more football to be played and a lot of miserable complaints and negative -woulda-shoulda-coulda..
I think unprecedented has never been claimed. Frankly, we, Florida and Bama are all on great runs with LSU's being the longest and most consistent. The fact that such heavyweights have been battling it out at the same time and all achieving such success is incredible.
The getting away part is interesting. Frankly the idea that we had superior talent to Florida and Bama this year once all the losses in personnel since January 9th of last year are taken account of is a pretty big stretch. Even prior to that it certainly wasn't something someone would have claimed just off recruiting rankings.
2006 and 2011 however is legitimate. We certainly had the talent to do so both years, though other teams did as well. Last year Bama being an obvious example. Of course one could say the same about Florida in a couple of years, and Bama under Saban a couple of times as well. In fact, it could have been said about Saban in 2011 in addition to 2008 and 2010 if OK State hadn't lost to Iowa St. Then we could say it three times for Saban and only once for Miles (since I don't count this year for LSU.)
Whatever the case, we could have done better and we could have done worse. Either way it has been a great run and my guess is it will be a great run for all three programs over the next five years.
I will attempt to answer the OP with some reason, if possible. A ten-win season is a good season, not a great one. Why? Because it is easier to win ten games when you play thirteen or fourteen than when you play ten or eleven. Fact, if we win a bowl game, our record will be 11-2, an outstanding accomplishment by any measure. Happy? Yes. Satisfied? No. How can I justify feeling that way? Because we lost to two teams we should have beaten. Had UF and Bama beat us 50-0 then we could say with honesty that 11-2 is a fully actualized season - we did the best we could. But to be close in both games, which should have been victories, losing to teams that we are better than, that is what catches in a person's craw. Those are the things that bug me, because who knows when that opportunity will arise again. Is Miles the problem? He is part of it, but not the total of it. I have begun to say, and will continue to believe, that there are other coaches out there who can do as well, but I can't say with certainty that those would do a better job than he has done. I am in no way in favor of replacing him at this time, but I do believe we have a coach on staff who will, in time, do as well or better than CLM.
This isn't debateable. It has been one of the greatest runs in college football history. A pace that if kept up would have Les an automatic entry into the Hall of Fame. You can want more, or say we should have done more, but it isn't something one can legitimately disagree with.
Have there been better? Sure, though never with the conference this tough. In the SEC the only clearly better postwar era was certain cherry picked runs during Bear Bryant's tenure, Ole Miss' run in the late 50's and early 60's and potentially Alabama now under Saban. It is at least equal to Spurrier's run at Florida, and we are winning at a higher clip than Alabama under The Bear, though I consider it highly unlikely either Miles or Saban can keep the pace up long enough to fruitfully compare. Both would be fired if they had some of the streaks he had at Bama, so they will be unlikely to have the chance to catch back up with his pace when they inevitably falter. I don't consider that a positive for our era, but that is today's fan base.
One could throw in Urban's era, but I am not sure it was sustainable had he stayed, and it was short. However, if Muschamp does well the combined era could be pretty great.
As for Miles' legacy, it is unfinished. Tom Osborne had a Hall of Fame resume for twenty years before his great run with three Championships. Before that he was always compared unfavorably to Switzer. In the end he looks better as a coach, program builder and human being. In 1989 only the last was commonly thought. It is funny how time changes ones perspective. In Miles' case we will have to see.
This post was edited by Lance Paddock 17 months ago
I never said you were talking about rankings. However, if what you say about the talent is true it must be due to superior talent evaluation and/or coaching given it was not recognized as superior prior to it appearing at LSU.
As for returning talent, this team by the time Florida and South Carolina arrived had hardly any returning starters from January 9th left. Not to mention losing several additional key contributors who had since taken starting roles and provided important depth. Some of that can be laid at Miles' feet possibly, but it isn't underachieving due to some kind of overwhelming amount of returning talent.
I absolutely agree with you on Mett being given more reps last year. I have felt the same in previous years about the backup not being given reps.
Whose success do you enjoy? I assume you enjoy it vicariously.
msu I think you summed up how a lot of the LSU fans out there feel, at least those that I hear talk and post. Thanks for all your input into the board.
I for one think Miles is the best bet at maintaining this level of consistency, but the team also has to find ways to not fold in big situations (the OBJ fumble and subsequent fallout/the final minute of Alabama). Obviously, they are on the cusp of another championship with a play here and there.
"I guess you've just gotta find something you love to do and then... do it for the rest of your life." - Max Fisher
I attribute that fold to leadership - not enough of it, anyway.
We have six teams with 10 wins - LSU isn't getting enough love for their wins over ranked teams.
When the conference goes to nine SEC opponents, I doubt we'll see any 12-0 or 11-1 teams standing.
There's just not that much discerrnable differences in athletes, recruits, facilities, or coaching. The SEC will be what it has become a super conference that feeds off its young.
It will be interesting to see how the cards play out through five or six coaching changes,other staff changes (LSU?), the recruiting year, and who makes a move in 2013.
BTJ,When Bama starts to play the schedule LSU has each year lets talk.
Yet again Bama does play Fl or Ga. Next year will be the same but LSU does. Tell me what other team in the SEC plays the top 3-4 team in the conference each and every year. IF Bama and FL played every year one of them would have its second lost like LSU has. When Saban starts to play the same top teams LSU does and has undefeated season I will be impressed until then he no better than we have.
Now we have your Idol coach "Whinny Boo Boo " complaining that he should still get the Sugar if he losses to Ga in the SECCG because he won his Div. Yeah that the guy I look up too! The Hypocrite
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